Former judge Pat Dugan challenges incumbent Larry Krasner in district attorney race over different approaches to protecting and leading Philadelphia.
By Emily L. Davis. April 27, 2025.
The event's moderator, Shakaboona Marshall, speaks to candidates Larry Krasner and Pat Dugan.Photo: Emily L. Davis for Inti Media.
From left to right: Shakaboona Marshall, event moderator, Alisha Fagg, founder of Alition who hosted the event, and James Holloway DeLeon, also a moderator. Photo: Courtesy of Human Rights Coalition.
On Thursday, March 11, the first District Attorney Candidates Community Forum was held at West Philadelphia Mennonite Fellowship. Incumbent District Attorney Larry Krasner and former Judge Pat Dugan discussed their approaches to community concerns over policy, public safety, and community engagement.
The panel event was organized by Shakaboona Marshall and James Holloway DeLeon; Marshall served as the moderator. DeLeon was joined on the panel by Janée Taft and Eden Tesfaye. All three panelists were former Harris campaign organizers, and Tesfaye was also a former Obama campaign organizer. The event was hosted by Alisha Fagg, the founder of Alition, and presented by the Human Rights Coalition.
Krasner, who won the coin flip to speak first, asked the crowd, “Which part don't you like: the safety or the freedom?”
He highlighted that his tenure as district attorney has led to more safety and freedom than before he came into office in 2018. Krasner also asserted that Philadelphia is leading in improvements to public safety over other big cities, thanks to a collaborative effort.
West Philadelphia Mennonite Fellowship. Photo: Emily L. Davis for Inti Media.
To contrast, Dugan explained that he resigned his 17-year period as a judge because he doesn’t think the city is safe. He stated that over the last seven years, 3,000 people have been murdered, 10,000 have been shot but not killed, and hit on what he called “free retail theft.”
“It was enough that made this former paratrooper decide to step down and get into the arena, because I want to make your neighborhood, your family, safe, my grandkids, my children, safe. That's why I took this mission on,” he finished.
Keeping policy at the forefront
Photo: Emily L. Davis for Inti Media.
One item of concern for Philadelphia residents is how DA policies will change under new leadership, and their ensuing effect on the community.
Krasner emphasized his record of exonerating wrongfully convicted individuals and the improvements to the criminal justice system, like the internal Police Misconduct Disclosure (PMD) Database. He also talked about his success in reducing the state and county prison populations.
“We have a county prison population that, under [former District Attorney] Lynne Abraham, was 11,000. It was lower than that, but not a ton lower than when I came into office; it's now about 4,000. … this is unheard of. We're talking about a level it has not [been] seen for literally decades,” Krasner stated.
To the same topic, Dugan stressed a need to make the Conviction Integrity Unit (CIU) more robust and have better vetting for cases.
“We should try to knock down incarceration and certainly the disparity of people of color. And I've been on the front lines of that, as well. During COVID, I was the president judge, and I went into the prisons to have a COVID court. I was the judge when the world shut down to go in and handle the cases of those men and women who were stuck in jail,” Dugan said.
From Left: James Holloway, DeLeon, Eden Tesfaye, Shakaboona Marshall, Larry Krasner (Incumbent), Alisha Fagg, Pat Dugan (Candidate), Janée Taft. Photo: Courtesy of Human Rights Coalition.
He continued, “I've led the nation in restorative, rehabilitative programs, and the vast majority of the people that come in front of me are people of color, so I've been on the front lines, and I want to continue to do that.”
Both candidates oppose cash bail, but Dugan referenced his reasoning to Dr. Richard Berk’s (Emeritus Professor of Criminology and Statistics at the University of Pennsylvania), risk assessment algorithm.
Krasner called such assessments racist and asserted that they would not be used.
“We would embrace the Philadelphia Police Department’s pre-arrest diversion program, which saves people the trauma of being arrested, having cuffs, going into a jail cell, etc,” Krasner said. He added that the number of diversion programs for youths have gone from 0 to 3 under his office, and a system for adults [aged] 18 to 25 has also been developed.
He continued, “We work with all kinds of nonprofits, we work with the city, and we access all these resources for the purpose of doing things that are restorative and that leave people in a position where they’re not going to have a conviction that will disqualify them from the job. … It works when you do that.”
After stating that he supports second chances and referring to his record of expungements, Dugan said, “Alternative misdemeanor program, despite the testimony from the district attorney's office and City Council the other day, AMP is not dead. … AMP works.”
Protection and prosecution as public safety pillars
In the past few years, public safety in Philadelphia has been a hot-button issue, due in part to a record number of shootings. More recently, progress has been made, but there is still room for improvement.
In 2020, the death of George Floyd sparked large protests across the country, including in Philadelphia.
Both candidates said they wouldn’t prosecute cases involving protest and civil disobedience. Krasner made an exception in the case of violence towards others and large amounts of property damage.
“I didn't spend 25 years defending protesters for free because I don't love the First Amendment. I love free speech. I love nonviolent social change. We have to create that space, and I intend to protect it. It's part of my duty to uphold the Constitution,” Krasner said.
Dugan agreed with this sentiment and cited the time he found 10 people who were represented by Krasner not guilty of protesting a casino being built.
When asked how they would use the DA’s office to protect marginalized communities under the current national administration, both focused on immigrants.
Krasner’s three points were to keep the electronic discovery system PARS away from ICE and remembering that the 10th Amendment says that the President can’t order local law enforcement to work with ICE.
“The third thing that we can do is we can make sure, with ICE agents, the same as with other law enforcement, that if they go beyond their rights and they start committing crimes, that they're held accountable. Yes, I will lock them up,” he said.
Dugan agreed with him and added that immigrants should be treated like all other citizens. “I don't think we should be leading the charge to deport people, but we should not be downgrading some of these serious charges just because they have bad paper. That's not fairness. It should be just like every citizen in the city of Philadelphia, the crime that they commit is what they commit.”
On a similar note, both candidates agreed that anti-violence community programs can help prepare formerly incarcerated people for future life experiences.
Krasner said, “This room is full of people who know all about that. How do you do it? You get them identification, you get them therapy, you get them treatment, you get them job programs, you get them education, you get them educational loans… You help them meet their basic needs, and the ones who really do want to straighten out their lives are going to go there.”
He added that recidivism rates among those in the programs are much lower than those who aren’t and touted their efficacy, particularly of their micro-grant programs.
On over-sentencing, he said, “I think that it has gotten way better, and then there's no question that the numbers support that Pennsylvania has had very excessive sentencing for a long time. Philadelphia's supervision, for example, on probation and parole at one time, was 25 times the level of New York City, which is only 90 minutes away,” Krasner stated, adding that the numbers are going in a positive direction.
He continued, “You stop locking up people and wasting all that money. You don't need to be there, and you use that money for stuff that works. You get safety. That's how it works in other countries. That [is] how it works in some enlightened states, and let me tell you where it never works, Republican states, we can talk about that.”
“I mean, it's a no-brainer. It's a no-brainer. We certainly have to put those programs on steroids. So what I do, what I did as a judge, is diversion courts. I'm the national leader when it comes to veterans court. I was involved with mental health court and Dawn's court,” said Dugan.
Dugan agreed that Philadelphia had an over-sentencing problem, but worries about a lack of accountability through shorter sentences.
In the second part of this article, crime prevention, community questions, and overall audience sentiment are discussed.
Photo: Courtesy of Human Rights Coalition.
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